-
RSS Subscribe
-
Books
Luis Palau
Nuclear Holocaust
I don’t know if this will draw much response, but I want to ask the “active” readers and commenter’s at NSL and even the lurkers to offer a brief (or long if you desire) comment on the following topic. Remember I get to ask the question and define the parameters and you get to answer.
I want to encourage everyone to offer their opinion on this point without regard for their personal view of President Bush. I will make the assumption that your personal view of the United States and the security of its people is of the highest order and you have its’ best interest at heart.
The Question is this: If AFTER all reasonable attempts to have Iran disengage their pursuit of Nuclear weaponry by the United States and our European Allies (including economic sanctions that are going on now and periodically tightened) and just BEFORE it becomes clear that IRAN is on course for the manufacture of a thermo nuclear device, WOULD YOU BE IN FAVOR OF PREEMPTIVE MILITARY ACTION to reduce this threat whether Bush, Hillary, Rudy or whoever is President? And if not, are you willing to accept the trade off of the possibility of a terrorist or terrorist nation obtaining one of these bombs and using it in the United States, or do you with an absolute degree of Metaphysical Certitude believe that the United States would not be endangered by this either then or later? For additional information as to the U.S. viewpoint and preparation for Iran on NSL go HERE. (post below)
comments
20 Responses to “Nuclear Holocaust”
Leave a Reply
Let’s turn Tehran into a glass parking lot.
bd……I hope I didn’t overstate your view to Matt below. I don’t think Tehran itself shouldn’t be exempt if the decision would be made as it relates to Nuclear facilities assuming intelligence points to that local for one or more installations. Once you start politicizing the target list, the operation is doomed and I’d say can it………steve
steve
to answer the question, yes i would in the event that the world powers you mention consider a pre-emptive strike the last resort.
bd, i am sure that you will take some flak from the ‘who would jesus bomb?’ crowd. it sounds insensitive to me when you say that you want to turn their capitol into a glass parking lot. i am pretty sure that in person you are not meaning to be insensitive, since i have seen you at church service, enjoy your site and consider your work first rate. did you mean it to be that, or is this a tongue and cheek expression. also, i read from your site a link from t.f. boggs who present a very balanced view of the current war and i do appreciate his perspective, but wonder if you have considered our resource base, already over-extended campaigns in the neighboring countries and multifaceted needs on our own soil? many might suggest an alarmist view that “we might not have a base or any options if they strike”. however, this to seems to be an excuse for war, without taking the necessary steps to consider a victory and what to do after the leader is ousted.
if you get a chance, i would love to see a blog posting and potential discussion on the mad science site…
regards
matt
Matt…..without speaking for bd, I think it is a bit tongue in cheek underscoring his viewpoint that we can’t allow Arab (or to be correct even Persian) radicals to get the bomb to use or threaten to use to get their way, only with emphasis.
I don’t think that a Pre-Emptive attack on Iran would be on the order of Iraq or even Afghanistan, but more on the model of Kosovo. Basically (though not exclusively) at 50,000 feet. Sort of a hit an run sapper attack type of thing. Not a protracted and bogged down occupation. We are good a winning wars, just not at managing occupation in a Politically Correct world.
Matt……one other point, I hope they wouldn’t wait until it is the last resort, but would act if it as their second to last resort because I am thinking in some of the lefts perspective you don’t get to the last resort until NYC and DC are level ……steve
[…] wrote an interesting post today on Nuclear HolocaustHere’s a quick […]
http://www.investors.com/editorial/cartoons/CartoonPopUp.aspx?id=271535885989118
Plodon………..thanks for the link it was a rather poignant cartoon and maybe right to the point. Maybe if our security services were not having their shorts examined at every move by the New York Times that things could be resolved easier before they came down to War or No War decisions.
Matt,
I’m not necessarily suggesting that we immediately launch a nuclear strike on Tehran. But would be very much in favor of launching air strikes against any potential nuclear sites, be they uranium enrichment facilities, reactors under construction, etc.
And if that doesn’t deter the Iranians from their endeavors, then it’s time to think about the seriousness of our intentions on destroying their ability to remain viable as a nation-state. We can let the French help them rebuild after we’re done too.
bd…………vive la france…………..steve
We got em in 45, USSR got em in 49…
Let them in the dag-gone club. They’ve already signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty!
US, Russia (therefore Belarus, Kazakhstan & Ukraine have played w/them) UK, France, China, India & Pakistan (both done in “secret” because of China & I’m not sure but, I don’t think either has signed the NPT?), North Korea, South Africa & most likely Isreal (although Israel is not a member of the NPT & refuses to officially confirm or deny having a nuclear arsenal, or to having developed nuclear weapons, or even to having a nuclear weapons program… so in a sense, Iran just wants the ability to be as evasive as Isreal) are all in…
I’m going to heaven anyway.. so nanny nanny boo boo
M2…………Correct me if I am wrong, so I’ll just put you down as being willing to accept the trade off of the possibility of a terrorist or terrorist nation obtaining one of these bombs and using it in the United States OR DO YOU MORE PROPERLY FIT IN THE CAMP OF AN absolute degree of Metaphysical Certitude that the United States would not be endangered by this either then or later.
Also, I don’t see that the Nuclear Non-Prolifferation treaty provides anything more than cover for a rogue nation until they reach that point of no return on Nuclear Weapons. Sort of a Fools Trap. Most of the others don’t have the brains, money or desire.
And…….I think Iran wants a lot more than to just be evasive (like Israel) on this issue and they announce that on Television every night.
And…….On that nanny nanny boo boo thing, that is good since you seem to spend a lot of time in high risk areas (NYC & LA).
………steve
Both
Iran is no crazier than the rest of us… & if I’m Iran, I’m saying lets all “put down our weapons” or shut up.
M2…….I thought you might say BOTH, but they are mutually exclusive positions.
One says that I’m willing to take the risk the other says that there is no risk…..steve
Okay then… I reserve the right to “flip-flop” between the two.
M2…….Ok granted, but I didn’t think you were actually in Hillary’s camp……..steve
Oh Hillary will bomb Iran….
M2……….maybe so, but it will depend on the polls…….steve
Absolutely not! Pre-emptive war is a thought crime and way too susceptible to manipulation. Pre-emptive war does not fall into just war theory despite any best rationalization. We’ve seen this manipulation before. Fool me once (Iraq) shame on you, fool me twice (Iran) shame on me. My trust of our military is at an all time low.
I’m at the point where I think if we did get nuked here, and many politicians are saying it’s inevitable anyway, that we would blame it on Iran no matter what the intelligence says or doesn’t say. So if we get nuked, we’ll glass parking lot Iran and probably any number of other countries. It would hardly be even.
Patrick…………Thanks for the imput, do I put you down as willing to take that risk or having metaphysical certitude that no risk exists………..steve
Patrick Patrick Patrick…
Operation Shock & Awe (or whatever it was called?) Part Two doesn’t interest you?
But what about the twin towers?
I would never say no risk, only an inflated sense of risk playing on Americans’ sense of fear and needing big gov to save us from everything. Al Gore has his fear factor. It is a great political tool. The true American Idol is safety. Outside of staying young/healthy and sex appeal, the next biggest advertising tool is safety. Why? Because we are a chicken neck society that can’t use our own common sense to protect ourselves.
Yeah, that is a risk I take. Although our posture in the Middle East does inflate that risk, that is why we need to draw down, otherwise our posture in the ME and Persian Gulf will result in a self-fulfilling prophecy. I don’t think this matters to many in Washington because to them the end justifies the means.
yes on the pre-emptive BUT I do believe there would have to be beyond a shadow of a doubt proof they were on their way to having it and using it. I would RATHER let Israel do the deed though to be honest.
I wish everyone would get rid of their nukes. how can we have weapons that will destroy so much. nukes are wrong for everyone. i know that is unrealistic because there would be no way to assure everyone got rid of their nukes.
Zabs………we did win the cold war not because we used nukes, but because we had nukes and did so without having to go to a “hot” war which is something that might not have been avoided without the nukes on both sides and the principle of MAD. I believe that Israel without the deterrent capability of tacit recognition by the world that they have them would be toast and I believe that countries such as Iran and organizations such as Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, etc. have made their intentions clear on this issue. Just last week Paul Tibbits (former President of Executive Jets, now NetJets) of Columbus, Ohio (you know where that is) died and he was the pilot in dropping the first nuclear bomb on Japan in World War II. That bomb immediately killed 78K people and it still didn’t elicit the desired response by Japan which was immediate “unconditional” surrender in the war, thus another was required. The second bomb caused the desired response.
Many say that this move by the US actually saved upwards of 1,000,000 lives on both the American and Japanese sides of the war by bringing an end to it and avoiding a land invasion. The purpose in the execution of war is to Kill people and Break things. If you can do it while minimizing the scope you have committed a just act I believe, and apparently so did Truman. During the years that I grew up Truman was the model Democrat for all others that followed and sought political office on the national stage. Apparently the mass of Democrats during these past Generations (including the WWII Generation) also agree with Truman’s assessment.
Quite obviously the “genie” is out of the bottle as it would have happened inevitably. If Hitler had survived much longer he would have had one himself. I believe that disarmarment from nuclear bombs is probably doomed just as the Kyoto treaty where many have signed on, but the exemptions and the non-compliance has basically rendered it useless whether it would have achieved its desired goals or not, even with compliance. Basically nobody is living to their commitments under it, yet you only hear of the condenmenation of the U.S. for not ratifying it. It looks like the world is somehow mullified by pretenses rather than fidelity of its pledge. (in recognition of this the world is moving it’s spin control of this fact in the direction of what they call “effective implementation.”
……..dad
Only one country has been known to ever dismantle their nuclear arsenal completely… the apartheid government of South Africa apparently developed half a dozen crude fission weapons during the 1980s, but they were dismantled in the early 1990s.
So, States “formerly” possessing nuclear weapons are South Africa & former Soviet countries Belarus, Kazakhstan & Ukraine… They’ve all signed the NPT & have voluntarily disposed of all nuclear weapons once in their possession… The later three handed them over to Russia (I think?).
It can be done Zabs & frankly, it’s what we should be trying to accomplish with everything in us.
In the meantime - Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) - signed 1968, into force 1970: An international treaty (currently with 189 member states) to limit the spread of nuclear weapons. The treaty has three main pillars: nonproliferation, disarmament, and the right to peacefully use nuclear technology.
M2……Just a minute, I believe that Lybia is the another nation to dismantel their WMD (Chemical, Biological and Nuclear) development program according to recent (2004) news reports memoralized here by the “Arms Control Oranaization” http://www.armscontrol.org/act/2004_01-02/Libya.asp and did so under the “Carrot and Stick” leadership by the United States.
The later three handed them over to Russia (I think?) Me think maybe maybe not. There are rummors circulating that all are not accounted for and have found their way to the black market.
…….steve
Bush et al are sold out to the PNAC view of global dominance. Iran stands in the way of this world view and the propaganda machine is duping the US public once again.
Just like WMD were never found in Iraq and now the US is in charge of the estimated $30 trillion worth of UNDISCOVERED oil, Iran poses no threat to the Mid East - even though the scumbags are Holocaust deniers and wish to wipe Israel off the map.
What US Foreign Policy makers need to get through their thick heads is that outside the US lies a big vast world where their decisions are played out in often catastrophic proportions. But their “National Interest” is far more important then welfare of billions living outside their borders.
My fear is that US Foreign Policy will convince Israel to some sort of military action therefore igniting the Mid East. Will Iran be the catalyst of all this? Who knows.
Hi Lay Guy…………..do you see the irony in your following statement?
Iran poses no threat to the Mid East - even though the scumbags are Holocaust deniers and wish to wipe Israel off the map.
This alone justifies Israel for what ever action they might take. One other thing, could you offer a simple and direct answer to the question of the post……….steve
My brother hates the Dallas Cowboys & wishes their stadium would blow up but he’s not gonna do anything about it…
I’m pretty sure you can figure out LayGuys answer, no?
M2………Your brother hasn’t claimed that he would push the Dallas Cowboys into the sea and eradicate them and hasn’t been working on a clandestine nuclear and missile program to insure his capability to accomplish the same. You don’t get the threat differential? sheesh…………steve
Hi Steve,
For my take on Israel, check my post here:
http://layguy.com/2007/12/06/middle-east-peace-fat-chance/
Although the thug is against Israel, who is he compared to God’s might?
To answer your question, “AFTER” all attempts made by the US but “BEFORE” it becomes clear they have the capacity to make a bomb assumes that the US will bully Iran before there is any concrete proof. Therefore a preemptive strike would be illegal just like Iraq.
Hi Lay Guy……….I just momentarily checked your site, will dwell longer later (medical appointment now), but I think the significance of your post regarding Christ lies in his Deity not his Divinity (not semantics here). My father-in-law was a minister in the UCC and recognized the Divinity of Christ but rejected the Deity of Christ. The distinction here is that Christ was not only like God (Divinity) but was God (Deity). This is the point that separates maybe a semantical difference in the concept of “Son’s of God” relative to Jesus and Satan. I only read that one post, but I couldn’t quickly discern your take on the “alleged” Mormon position on their sibling status. Anyway……
So am I correct to infer that you would wait until Iran has the “bomb” before you would take any action or would you wait from them or their surrogates to use it, or if they used it, what would be the value in responding anyway, it would only be retribution killing innocent women and children?
……and I strongly disagree that this war is illegal. I challenge you to make the legal case against the war, it was authorized by both the UN (Resolution 1441) and Congress, so what is the predicate for illegality? Additionally, Saddam was in violation of the Gulf War I armistice which alone re-activates even the first Gulf War authorization. Are you familiar with the legalities related to an Armistice? I REALLY don’t think you or others can make the “legal” case against this war and I have only heard political assertions without any evidence. If you want to take the position that it is immoral I’ll give that to you without agreeing………steve
Your brother hasn’t claimed that he would push the Dallas Cowboys into the sea and eradicate them and hasn’t been working on a clandestine nuclear and missile program to insure his capability to accomplish the same.
Neither has Iran, but keep shouting it really loud over & over… Because people actually believe you.
M2………Unless the Fox News Network put another one of their fraudlent reporters involved in the translation of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad I have heard him say it myself. I’ll research the quote for you, which will return us to my former point.
NOTE: Here it is as translated by Memri: Iranian President at Tehran Conference: ‘Very Soon, This Stain of Disgrace [i.e. Israel] Will Be Purged From the Center of the Islamic World – and This is Attainable’ The entire speech is available here: http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=archives&Area=sd&ID=SP101305
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Thursday the solution to the Middle East crisis is to destroy Israel. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/03/AR2006080300629.html
According to the Iranian media Monday, Iranian President Mahoud Ahmadinejad declared that Israel was destined to ‘disappearance and destruction’ at a council meeting with Iranian ministers http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-%20%203327439,00.html
Any Questions?…………………..steve
I suppose he’s accomplishing his desired affect simply by moving his lips…
Because that’s all he’s doing.
I guess “All talk & no walk” works even on the worlds stage. Funny, I thought I figured that concept out in kindergarden?
Oh wait, he’s enriching uranium somewhere in a bunker in Afghanistan, probably with Bin Laden & Obama. It’s all very complex, we need to pay very close attention.
& haven’t heard you worry about N Korea in a while (if ever), we cool over there?
M2…….really, that is all he is doing? Well shame on me, I could have consulted you all along and know that those 5,000 centrifuges (going to 50,000) is a myth.
But the point is that your brother never threatened the cowboys and my point was that Iran has, which makes my point even if the remote possibility that your intuition tells you that he is only moving his lips would be accurate. My bet is that Israel doesn’t want their survival to depend on your intuition especially when it flies in the face of overt statements and their covert intelligence.
And you are right………N. Korea is cooling off a bit but no thanks to the prior administration who got rope-a-doped on this by the N. Koreans and no thanks to the current Democrats in congress that complained that Bush wouldn’t do exclusive Bi-Lateral talks (so they could simply be shaken down like Clinton). But sometimes you have to penetrate the non-sense of the opposition to make any headway. But thankfully it LOOKS like this may have been resolved peacefully notwithstanding the complications from the D’s……..steve
Hahaha… of course!