Obama Draws a Bright Line for our Enemies to See.

18 Responses to “Obama Draws a Bright Line for our Enemies to See.”

1. University Update - Barack Obama - Obama Draws a Bright Line for our Enemies to See. on August 3rd, 2007

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2. matt on August 3rd, 2007

   i read an entry from a “left” leaning columinst about this very issue. the point was how obama is certain that the war on terror has blurred the distinction of how, when and whom to attack when terrorism is involved. the columnist claims that to equate al qaeda to a specific country of origin or general region is flawed logic. as an example of this thinking from your entry, could the attack result from indonesia, pakistan, kashmir, rogue states, angry opec nations or even quebec sepratists (had to for the 24 fans).

   but in all seriousness, i think obama and his handlers have not done a very good job of clearly speaking such nuances when dealing with such a vague affair as the war on terror. i did read a direct quote from him awhile ago about how he believes that absolute certain data is necessary before he will use military force. this goes way back to how the anti-war left feels that bush and company “pimped” colin powell’s repuation on the wmd to get the credibility to attack in the middle east.

   i know many readers will lump me into the conspiracy theory category, but i do ask the question, is obama wrong for asking for indisputable evidence on the source of the terroristic attack before we use military intervention? i am not saying that in the event of us taking a direct hit from a terrorist cell, we should not use our military. what i am trying to say is that it is critical that we know the who, what and where info before we retaliate.

   Matt……. Thanks for the nod to us 24 fans! The “left” leaning columnist that you reference in the first paragraph sounds good to me, but there isn’t much to sink your teeth into. Al Qaeda is a movement or organization that is trans-national in nature, yet we see that some countries are utilizing this posture to cause trouble in the world through this surrogate operation. This is not a new or uncommon strategy in the middle eastern countries. You have so many militaristic organizations such as Islamic Jihad, Egyptian Jihad, Muslim Brotherhood, al Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah that are sometimes so inextricably linked to countries and other terror organizations that it is hard to distinguish their actions. If we in the end permit this to be an operative strategy that essentially “Checks and Mates” the United States we are headed for more trouble.

   One of the more glaring examples is Afghanistan under the Taliban. This was an country that was only recognized by a few countries in the world as to its legitimacy; however, was postured to wreak havoc throughout their country, region and world as a whole. This was not a problem that surfaced in the wake of 911, but one that had been addressed on the diplomatic level by both the Clinton and Bush (maybe Bush’s) administrations. I might add that this was to no avail on all parts. Even after 911 the country of Afghanistan was asked to turn over Osama bin Laden, but refused to do that or even deport him. This is a complicity that couldn’t be tolerated in a post 911 era. We have often seen this type of state sponsored terrorism in such areas as Libya and now Iran to mention a couple of more examples.

   While Barack Obama may have found it hard to distinguish as to who, where and how (attack), I don’t think many suffered from that “nuance” including the Democratic leadership at the time. Of course the difficulties of the war in Iraq have cause much anxiety and vacillation in this area since their initial support. That is a convenience that a Senator can enjoy that a President cannot.

   I don’t think Obama’s question of asking for indisputable evidence for source of terrorist attacks goes to the point of our current war on terror. Although he had the luxury of not having to cast a vote after 911, many of his current colleagues did. There is not much dispute in that one tape where Osama bin Laden took responsibility for 911 and tediously offered his credentials as a structural civil engineer to express his surprise as to the degree of damage that his plan caused the World Trade Center relative to their wildest expectation. Injecting the overall discussion of “indisputable evidence” into the question of our fundametal reason for the war on terror (911) lends further support to the point of this post which is that I don’t believe that Barack Obama is “ready for prime time.” ……..steve

3. Lord Crimson on August 3rd, 2007

   Hi Steve

   This post raises the question, what do we really know about Obama, other than he is trying to hide the fact he is Muslim?

   His words certainly suggest if he becomes President the US is Islam’s for the taking. No retaliation? Sounds like another fox in the hen house to me.

   LC

   LC, and to me the most imprtant thing is not what we don’t know about Obama, but what we do. I think a fair analysis of that would lead to the conclusion that basically the background of a Chicago City Councilman doesn’t have the experience to be a War Time President……steve

4. matt on August 3rd, 2007

   lc and steve, and all silent readers of course…

   are you suggesting that this could be a real life manchurian candidate? myself, i dont beleive that obama has a chance to get 1600 penn ave, but i also question whether or not a strawman arguement is being setup in the media for drama and conspiracy theories that appeal to the average voter (both for and against his candidate attemps.)

   personally, i think that if it were not obama and a man on the lines of j.c. watts, michael steele, or lynn swann there would be just as much attempts at digging into their backgrounds and other dramatic links would be drawn to these men. look on both sides of the political aisle, the war on terror is as big an issue as health care and entitlement spending. any major candidate will be picked apart from rudy’s “parading” of his affair irrespecitve of his leadership during 9-11 in new youk media outlets to bloomberg’s potential on-again-off-again consideration.

   i dont want to hijack this post and make it a race issue because it is not, but it seems to me that hysteria arouse around the time his middle name was released in most references to him. so, naturally, since we are in a war on terror that is vaguely defined and mission objectives that are admittidly unrealistic, free association is rampant.

   i am not accusing anyone here of a strawman or conspiracy theory belief, but trying to question perceptions to get to real means, motives and opportunities for our country moving forward.

   Matt………I think Obams’s clearest route to 1600 is via the V.P. I wrote a long time ago that I believe he could be a “kingmaker” in the Democratic sweepstakes. This of course was most strongly emphasized by myself in the context of a parallel Gore candidacy, something I don’t rule out at this time. If Gore is to get in I think Obama is a clinch for a position (probably lower) on the ticket. So what he says and does is pertinent to this sometimes not so theoretical discussion.

   You have mentioned a group of prominent Republican black politicians in the context of scrutiny if they were to enter the race. Personally I like each one of them; however, I am sure their entry into the race would cause scrutiny from both ends of the political spectrum. I would say that the hysteria surrounding Obama’s middle name was not so racially motivated as the suggestion of religious fears (I.E. Hussein as in Saddam and other Islamic adherents)

   I find the “Manchurian” thing to be sort of an internet anomaly that provokes blogger interest due to the mere fact that Obama was raised during his early years at least as a Muslim and attended a “Madrassa.” I think this all came to light due to Hillary’s opposition research, but it was just to juicy of a hypothesis (not necessarily fact) to ignore, especially since it seems he made some effort to obscure it.

   In short and in my opinion notwithstanding the possibility of hackling racial or religious sensitivities, I don’t believe that he comes with the qualifications and background to be a war time President just out of the seats of the city council in Chicago. I think his comments in this area underscore my belief in this……..steve

5. John Kaiser on August 3rd, 2007

   Obama is really displaying his inexperience for all to see. And imagine this, the man finally takes a real stance on an issue, and he puts his foot right into his mouth. I think he better stick with the cliches.

   Although, I will give him credit for accomplishing one thing. He actually managed to make Hillary seem rational and principled. Creepy.

   Hi John……….don’t you just love it when the Democratic frontrunners go at eachother. When the dust settles and Hillary chooses Obama to run with her, her concerns about world Nuclerar Security will suddenly fade away………steve

6. M2 on August 3rd, 2007

   About this “madrassa” business. I’ll go ahead & throw this real information up because I’m not sure any of the NSL “me too’s” will (Matt & Jim being my only “me too” exclusions)… understand the context of your quotations surrounding the word?

   First from a Philip Weiss column, an explanation by Palestinian scholar Saifedean Ammous:

   “The term Madrasah simply means school, and is used exactly as in English, so you could use it to refer to a Jewish, Christian or Islamic Madrasah, as well as a public, private, elementary or secondary Madrasah. In the English language, and due to the amount of coverage that some of these schools in Pakistan and Afghanistan have been getting over the last few years, the term Madrasah has been associated with religious schools that supposedly indoctrinate and train terrorists.”

   “Obama clearly went to a Madrasah in Indonesia for two years as a child, in that he clearly went to a school for two years as a child. . . Even if he did go to a religious school, that almost certainly doesn’t mean that it was a place where they learned Koran and not chemistry. In all likelihood it was an Islamic school inasmuch as Catholic schools in America are Catholic: a regular school teaching all the regular subjects, but putting a little extra emphasis on religion and the morality of its students.”

   & from WIKIPEDIA: In the Arabic language, the word implies no sense other than that which the word school represents in the English language, such as private, public or parochial school, as well as for any primary or secondary school whether Muslim, non-Muslim or secular. Unlike the understanding of the word school in British English, the word madrasah refers in American English to a university-level or post-graduate Islamic school. . .

   A typical Islamic school (madrasah) usually offers two courses of study: a “hifz” course; that is memorization of the Qur’an . . . and an ‘alim course leading the candidate to become an accepted scholar in the community. . . Depending on the educational demands, some madrasahs also offer additional advanced courses in Arabic literature, English and other foreign languages, as well as science and world history. . .

   In India, there are around 30,000 operating madrasahs. . . Madrasah education is always provided for free. As a result, the madrasahs often have a multifarious student enrollment, including some Hindus and Christians. . .

   Due to administrative mishandling, radical political indoctrination of students and adopting a more conservative view of the simple teachings of Islam, especially in certain Muslim countries such as Pakistan, madrasahs nowadays are frequently deemed as ideological and political training grounds for hatred against the West. In Pakistan in particular, the heavy emphasis on religious teachings to the exclusion of more economically viable subject areas has been criticised. There are also many allegations and documented cases of physical abuse in madrasahs, especially in the UK, such as corporal punishment, beatings and other such practices; such criticisms are usually limited to western countries, as practices such as these are an established pedagogic norm in many nations like Pakistan, Bangladesh or Nigeria.

   & a press release from last year:
   US STATE DEPARTMENT, MARCH 14 2006 - Today, during her visit to Ma ‘Muriyah madrassah in Jakarta, U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice announced the creation of the Indonesian version of Sesame Street, the popular educational children’s television program. The new program will be funded through a $8.5 million grant from the U.S. Government through the United States Agency for International Development to the Sesame Workshop.

   Secretary Rice, Ambassador B. Lynn Pascoe, and USAID Mission Director William M. Frej were welcomed to Ma ‘Muriyah by Mr. Sidi Muralin Singedekane, owner of the school, and Headmistress Yawairiyah. Speaking to students, teachers and education officials, Secretary Rice said the Indonesian version of Sesame Street will help build a foundation for successful life-long learning for millions of Indonesian children, as it has for children around the world. . .

   While at Ma ‘Muriyah, Secretary Rice visited the classrooms for second and sixth graders who are participating in USAID’s Decentralized Basic Education Program. The program introduces more participatory teaching and learning techniques to help increase student’s performance in math, science and reading. . .

   Ma ‘Muriyah madrassah is an elementary and junior high school in the Cikini neighborhood. Of the madrassah’s 125 students, half come from disadvantaged families. Many live in temporary houses along the river.

   M2……….I said:

   “I find the “Manchurian” thing to be sort of an internet anomaly that provokes blogger interest due to the mere fact that Obama was raised during his early years at least as a Muslim and attended a “Madrassa.” I think this all came to light due to Hillary’s opposition research, but it was just to juicy of a hypothesis (not necessarily fact) to ignore, especially since it seems he made some effort to obscure it.”

   Facts are the Manchurian Candidate thing has floated around the web by some bloggers (granted conservative). I ‘m sure you noted that my reference here was in the larger context of Matt’s question and not so much an issue of advocacy. My reference to the instigation of this was to Hillary (not right wing bloggers) and I did reference here as an internent anomaly, and even that as a hypothesis and not necessarily fact (as so stated), but juicy none the less. Because Obama contributed some degree of effort to obscure his religious upbringing and education background certainly puts the questions within the context of fairness. I think your biggest beef here would be not with the right wing bloggers, me, NSL commenters, but Hillary. She is the pivotal person in this dated story brought to life again for in response to question on this thread.

   I’ll concede your lengthy dissertation on the definition of a Madrassa with the exception being that the way you describe them is not a universal reality. In Afghanistan they largely were for the indoctrination of fundamentalist religious training and mostly scripture memory and Jihad. One can only speculate as to what type Obama attended, but I find it interesting that the strongest defense of the Madrassa does not acknowledge an iota about how some actually operate and is offered by Islamic apologists scholar. ………..steve

7. the Grit on August 3rd, 2007

   Hi LC,

   The subtle key in Obama’s comment is who he didn’t say he would use nuclear weapons on. This leaves him free, once he has the Football, to nuke us or any other democratic Government that dares stand up to his Islamic brothers. A vote for Obama is a vote for Osama. Ooh, that would make a great bumper sticker! Gotta go.

   the Grit

   Hi Grit…………I think, given the Football, Obama would probably send the Football keeper on an extended vacation since he would never need it………steve

8. plodon on August 3rd, 2007

   ‘K - well, this is an article on Obama’s recent comments via Foxnews, so I wouldn’t be surprised at all if some wouldn’t consider it “real information” (ahem - M2?). If a person has a problem with the “F word” daring to be uttered by one of us poor lil ignrnt knuckledraggin’ kkkonservtv reichwingers (from which the pathetic NSL “me too”er fools are drawn, right?), they should perhaps get thier garlic and Evian blessed by Noam Chomsky ready and steele themselves for the assault on reason that is Fox.

   
   plodon……..thanks for the body text…….steve

   ————————————————————

   Pakistan Criticizes Obama on Comments
   Friday , August 03, 2007

   AP

   ISLAMABAD, Pakistan —

   Pakistan criticized U.S. presidential candidate Barack Obama on Friday for saying that, if elected, he might order military strikes against terrorists hiding in this Islamic country.

   Top Pakistan officials said Obama’s comment was irresponsible and likely made for political gain in the race for the Democratic nomination.

   “It’s a very irresponsible statement, that’s all I can say,” Pakistan’s Foreign Minister Khusheed Kasuri told AP Television News. “As the election campaign in America is heating up we would not like American candidates to fight their elections and contest elections at our expense.”

   Another presidential hopeful, Colorado Republican Tom Tancredo, also came under criticism Friday by a Pakistani official after saying that the best way to deter a nuclear terrorist attack on the United States would be to threaten to retaliate by bombing the holiest Islamic sites of Mecca and Medina.

   Tancredo spoke at a town hall meeting in Osceola, Iowa on Tuesday.

   In Washington, the State Department disavowed Tancredo’s remarks, which some diplomats fear could damage U.S. ties with the Muslim world and hurt efforts to counter Islamist extremism.

   “It is absolutely outrageous and reprehensible for anyone to suggest attacks on holy sites, whether they are Muslim, Christian, Jewish or those of any other religion,” deputy spokesman Tom Casey told reporters, adding that the comments were “absolutely crazy.”

   In Pakistan’s national assembly on Friday, Minister for Parliamentary Affairs Sher Afgan said he would open debate next week on recent American criticism of Pakistan, including Tancredo’s remarks.

   In a speech Wednesday, Obama said as president he would order military action against terrorists in Pakistan’s tribal region bordering Afghanistan if intelligence warranted it. Many analysts believe that top Taliban and al-Qaida leaders, including Osama bin Laden, are hiding in the region after escaping the U.S.-led invasion of Afghanistan in 2001.

   President Gen. Pervez Musharraf has come under growing pressure from Washington to do more to tackle the alleged al-Qaida havens in Pakistan. The Bush administration has not ruled out military strikes, but still stresses the importance of cooperating with Pakistan.

   “There are terrorists holed up in those mountains who murdered 3,000 Americans. They are plotting to strike again,” Obama said. “If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf will not act, we will.”

   Pakistan’s state-run news agency reported Friday that Musharraf, asked about the possibility of U.S. military operations in Pakistan, said the country was “fully capable” of tackling terrorists in the country and did not need foreign assistance.

   Pakistan used to be a main backer of the Taliban, but it threw its support behind Washington following the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks. Since then, Pakistan has deployed about 90,000 troops in its tribal regions, mostly in lawless North and South Waziristan, and has lost hundreds of troops in fighting with militants there.

   On Friday, 1,000 tribesmen rallied in Miran Shah, the main town in North Waziristan tribal area, condemning recent military operations and chanting slogans against the United States.

   “We will teach a lesson to America if it attacks us,” local cleric Maulvi Mohammed Roman told the rally.

9. theobromophile on August 3rd, 2007

   Wow. If you hate America so much, why live her? Taliban crazies don’t want you? Actually like the benefits of capitalism?

10. Nick on August 4th, 2007

    First of all, he first answered the question with a yes, then thought about it, and did the politician two step. Second of all thw whole thing about going into Pakistan ( which everyone jumped on him about) is the very thing that everyone on the hill is saying , but in politician speak not so bluntly like Obama. Even Hillary and Edwards have said the similar things, where is the criticism for them. Can America be so fooled with symantics? A resounding YES!

    Hi Nick……thanks for comming by and filling in some blanks about this discourse. …………. steve

11. M2 on August 4th, 2007

    Context not welcome here Nick…

    & not only can people be fooled, we then take it to the blogs… C’mon play along.

    M2 …………. “we then take it to the blogs” And how, …… been to the Daily Kos lately? ………steve

12. M2 on August 4th, 2007

    No… But I will wait…

    Okay, something on FISA capitulation in congress, a piece on a presidential leadership forum, Dick Durban commentary because he’s missing the convention (of anti-patriots), talking about the damage BushCo has done to our constitution (which I have a hard time arguing against), something on the senate (including 16 democrats) giving in on wire tapping, etc etc

    People are upset Steve, but if Kos is the rights next (current) diversion, have at it.

    Appallingly irresponsible to misrepresent facts…

    You just prompted me to make only my third Kos visit ever to see what all of the fuss is about. I went the other two times for the same reason because Bill O won’t shut up about them…

    It’s a joke!

    Me, I bookmark NSL

    M2……Yep, this is another choice one. Sound the alarm about the Constitution again. You don’t you wear the same blinders as Durbin and the crowd do you? I am so sorry that my conscience isn’t offended because Bush wants to Wire Tap Terrorist on foreign soil (totally apart from the fact that the Administration also wants to Wire Tap terrorists that call American to see who they call). The Democrats wanted to lay down in the street over this one. So Bush is trashing the Constitution. What is unprecedented is that the Democrats are twisting the Constution (trashing it) to protect our war time enemy. Think about it. Those of us willing to serve don’t think it’s funny. I’m sure they wouldn’t have thought it funny in WWII if the Democrats wanted to block ease dropping on our foreign enemy on forein soil even when they communicated with eachother. (as the Democrats positiion would have allowed)

    Just pray they aren’t calling your neighbor to blow up your neighborhood, especially if the Democrats had won this one. And you don’t think it suggests who the Democrats are and will to support in order to try and leverage against Bush. They are subtle about it, but I guess you might be biting. I’m not…..steve BTW - it is the FISA judges themselves that are calling for this legislation….

13. M2 on August 4th, 2007

    Kos not being the joke… Bill O’s unrelenting drivel (because I know you like that word) about it.

    M2……..I’m with you here, KOS isn’t a joke. And you scold my commenters? I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt …….. I just refuse to believe you’ve read some of those sophmoric comments from there……….steve

14. M2 on August 4th, 2007

    & so that’s what’s wrong with Kos?

    I’m not sure BushCo’s wire tapping desires are where the democrats draw the line on his constitutional butchery?

    M2 ….. Well that is where it was this week. So inclined to give them the benefit …… I detect…….steve

15. M2 on August 5th, 2007

    Easy Sherlock…
    We’re missing each other somehow… On this & the “chickenhawk” thread we’ve somehow mananged to not understand each other.

    & you are correct, I’ve never gone into thier (Kos) comments in my eight minutes of total time there.

    I do know that people are very upset with the current climate in Washington… & I am guilty of not only sympathizing but at times (most) joining in on the chorus of boo’s.
    I take it you’re still a part of the ever dwindling, currently somewhere in the neighborhood of like what, twenty five percent?
    Somehow trying to figure out how to play just enough offense & strategic defense until election day because you’re a republican by God… & we need to keep the white house red?
    Your party has left the building Steve. Now I’m all for re-building… But first we need to acknowledge that there’s a problem.
    Ridiculously, Washington is getting ready to be completely blue & that’s gonna lead to nothing but nightmares as well.
    Sure it’ll be great foddor for Limbwhatever, Savage, Bill O & the like (another potentially amazing eight years of division) but the show must go on. You’ll be able to post at least four or five times a day at that point… & you’ll get to throw your defensive playbook out… All offense to be sure.
    We need checks & balances in the worst way but our country is so divided, it’s gonna take a minute.

    M2………..then I’m sure you’ll love my Monday post too…..steve

    P.S. I must just say this. I believe (as you already know) that we are in an existential war whether we like Bush or not and the left as in KOS, Move On and the Democratic leadrship could prove to be our undoing. They seem to be doing everything (such as FISA) to insure that they can dump on Bush and assure a blue W.H., but I think it could cost us more than any struggle the nation has confronted before. I’m right or I’m wrong (and its not my first trip around the block), but I’m not in it for the sake of Repubicans though that is the way I mostly vote. I don’t believe the opposite is true with the KOS fellows, Move On and the Democratic Leadership. I do believe they are willing to sacrifice part of our security for the need to be back in power like that stretch of about 50 years…. Did you read how the KOS Convention dumped on the uniformed soldier that showed up. I think they should be nuked themselves

16. Angel on August 5th, 2007

    hiya Steve..ah yes so true!..This post raises the question, what do we really know about Obama, other than he is trying to hide the fact he is Muslim?!!

    Hi Angel, but it looks like his campaign may be imploding but the consequenses are likely to be Hillary Rodham …steve

17. the Grit on August 5th, 2007

    Hi Angel,

    Obama is not too old. He’s black. He’s not Hillary. He’s too cheap to hire political consultants to tell him what to say.

    Dang, I might vote for him myself

    the Grit

18. M2 on August 5th, 2007

    There you go Steve… couple of examples.

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