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Luis Palau
E-85 “How Gore Turned the Gulf of Mexico Green”
I have summarized below some things you need to know if someone would ask you if you support the use of E-85 Ethanol for your car so that you wouldn’t embarrass yourself because you didn’t know the facts.
E-85 is an auto fuel made up of 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline
In the United States corn is used in the manufacture of Ethanol
A gallon of E-85 has only 72% of the energy of regular gasoline, so a car that gets 21 mpg in the city and 31 mpg on the highway will only now achieve 16 mpg and 23 mpg respectively.
The cost of Ethanol nationwide averaged about 25 cents more per gallon than regular gasoline, so if you spend $3.00 (Illustrative cost per gallon) and drive in the city it will cost you $4.26 to drive the same distance with E-85 and $4.38 on the highway.
Planting, plowing, cultivating, harvesting and transporting the corn to make 1 gallon of ethanol utilizes about 1.6 gallons of gasoline and/or diesel
The E-85 “dry mill” operations use natural gas or coal to operate. Most have switched to coal because of the sky-high prices of Natural Gas.
These coal-fired plants produce twice the carbon emissions and essentially cancel the beneficial effects on the environment for Global Warming.
To make this E-85 program work and make us energy independent we would have to convert 675 million acres of farmland just to produce this E-85. That is 71% of our tillable farmland in the United States. In this case the effort to become “energy independent” has now caused us to become “food dependent.” We would have to import most our food and feed. Would you rather be energy or food dependent?
Not only would the cost of travel go up to $4.38 to buy enough of E-85 to take you the same distance as a gallon of gas, but also the cost of food would skyrocket. If you think this is bad for you, take a minute to think of the famine it would cause in the 3rd world countries because of the increased cost of food acquisition.
So far the limited increased production of corn for the production of E-85 has caused a major Algae bloom in the Gulf of Mexico in an area the size of New Jersey.
But Al Gore bragged in 1994 that he cast the tie-breaking vote in the Senate against Bill Bradley’s (D-New Jersey) legislation to cut tax incentives for Ethanol. So all this is the direct result of Gore’s uniquely individual action.
So in Summary: If this program were successful you would be paying the equivalent of 46% more per gallon for fuel resulting in no beneficial effect on Global Warming, while using at least as much gasoline as we would otherwise, resulting in making us food dependent and destroying the environment all at extra cost to the U.S. Taxpayer. And “conveniently” speaking you would have Al Gore to thank.
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Will Al buy Fritos credits, then? Enquiring minds want to know.
plodon…….only if he has previously acquired options on the Frito-Lay company and needs to promote the product and turn it into a civic responsibility………steve
Ethanol is not a good alternative…
LOVE the choice of green & recommend you switch to it full time. Makes an awesome statement.
How about any journey under 2 miles, get your lazy butts on bicycles.
How does that concept grab you? You can put a big basket on the front for those CostCo runs… Something that’ll hold 30 rolls of paper towels & 48 hot dogs.
Since the median auto trip is under two miles, (and engines make a lot more pollution in the first mile, until the converter lights) switching to a bicycle should be within most peoples reach.
Matt feel free to chime in on this one…
Will do a little 1994 research to see what Gores intentions were… Maybe at that time he just wasn’t ready to give up on the concept. Progress takes risk… Sometimes even without reward.
Right? My Iraqi freedom warriors?
No but really Steve, I’m with you. Ethanol is lame. Plus it gave you a great opportunity to stay on Gore & his get rich quick scheme.
M2….I thought that Green was a nice touch too. For at least half of the year I am in a downtown urban environment and most of our trips are walking or by trolley. The rest of the year I am sitting at the computer most of the time anyway. Just dismantling the liberal icons of Political Correctness one brick at a time. Don’t have all the answers but see a lot of BS in the lefts
solutionmandates for most things……….stevei agree that e85 is a painfully bad energy solution. i believe and practice taking alternative transportation because it is not only healthy but wise from a psychological perspective (also, the environmental benefits are nice). some of my best thoughts of the day came when i was taking the “leather limosine” to work or riding my mountain bike on errands. i understand that this is not a viable means for transportation for most, but it really is great for any and all who look for health benefits along with time to not be overwhelmed in a car.
from an idustrial perspective, the mere transportation of of ethanol would require new piping solutions since ethanol corrodes the inside of the existing pipline system. i cant imagine how we would possibly move all this stuff.
i agree with m2 that the short trips really set us back from a fuel economy perspective. i know in the midwest, the layout of the suburbs and surrounding city areas makes it impractical for non-city dwellers to practice alternative transportation. one wish i am hoping gets more appreciation is city planning. my wife and i were visiting a friend recently and saw multiple resaurants, groceries and shopping areas on the 25 minute drive to their home in the burbs, but limited public transportation, bike paths or properly setup crosswalks in the event people would want to use their car less.
Matt, ….. I am starting this response for the 2nd time today. Early this morning after I got ready to go to the funeral for Gayle I was waiting for my wife t come downstairs. I was typing this response and all of a sudden the power went out in the house, neighborhood and a radius of a couple of miles as far as I could eventually tell by driving to the church for the funeral before we encountered a working traffic light.
What I said but couldn’t acutally post was that I should have checked with you before I made this post. I had no idea that E-85 would corrode the pipelines. This factor alone becomes one of the singularly most onerous problems in converting to E-85. My whole scenario is based on what would happen if this program was sucessfull, meaning that the pressure groups and activists succeeded in making everyone believe this was a good thing and actually act on that viewpoint.
But I think we’re ok here because it won’t be a sucessful program for only one of the listed reasons. As soon as people get over the euphoria of this thing and start shelling out 46% more for fuel from the high prices that exist today you will see that we’ll get sort of an unannounced mini-boycott of this product. This is a little bubble that is doomed to collapse on itself. Just pointing out the halarity of what we would have if the left actually got what they keep asking for…….steve
But Al mentioned all this in his movie, right? Right?!
Neil……….I didn’t see the movie but I am sure it was because Bush is the only liar, right? ………….steve
why do you have to make so much DANG sense? that’s what is so difficult about arguing with conservative repubs…(which i am), all that logic!
on a side note: i don’t have an e-85 car, we have the option here to fuel with like 10 or 15% ethanol mix. which we do. my husband’s parents are farmers and bought into the ethanol industry that is booming here in SD. so far, it’s been a heck of an investment. my husband and i are kicking ourselves for not coming up with the $30K needed to buy in when they did…as they’ve recooped their investments MANY TIMES OVER already. so on their behalf…thanks Al Gore:-)
Heidi Jo…….well we wouldn’t want to confuse or scare anyone with the facts would we? But on that 10-15% stuff. We have it here in Central Ohio with SuperAmerica. Never really thought much about it until the greenies starting bragging about it. I concluded that it is more of a marketing gimmic to cause people to think they are doing their little part in conservation since a loss of 72% of 10% boils down to about a reduction of 7.2% efficiency. This is a number that is probably just under the “margin of error” when individuals evaluate their own gas mileage and hence there is no adverse market reaction to that efficiency.
But you are right about the investors making money. As long as the government is encouaging the product and guys like Gore are trumpting the value to the planet, I wouldn’t think the average guy making a little killing on it would be much of a moral question at all………….steve
heidi jo’s point is one in which afew of my chirsitan friends and i differ on. others think chirsitans need to be socially responsible with their use of money because they will be accountable for how they use it. i believe that consumer decisions are difficult to write such blanket statements because picking and choosing what to do and not do is a situational ethics that can be reduction to absurdity.
as an example, would somebody sell a ge stock becuase their media division generates profit from the pornography realted industries? or, is owning exxon a trouble maker even though we all use its end product?
personally, i think it is quite astute of heidi jo’s family memebers to recognize the e85 market, jump on it and use the proceeds for thier families use.
so, does anyone think that it is morally or ethically wrong to profit at the expense of one preceided moral and ethical grounds?
Matt………I don’ think the investing (like I said to Heidi Jo) in e-85 is a moral problem at all. If I knew about it and felt the market price was still selling at a discount to true value I’d buy it myself, but as I said they are floating this proposition on a buble of inaccurate information that will become self-evident to the consumer at some, as I said, this is a market waiting to collapse and I wouldn’t want to be caught on the long side of it………steve
for clarity, preceived moral and ethical situations does not mean universal. i dont think anyone has the capacity to speak on behalf of christianity regarding what be considered the best “christian” investment (whether it is time or money).
Matt………I stopped looking at uniquely Christian “investments” a long time ago after I found that it was even tougher to figure that out than hiring “Christian employees,” which seemed to not work out at least as often as the non Christian variety. I guess were all fallen……………steve
Since the median auto trip is under two miles, (and engines make a lot more pollution in the first mile, until the converter lights) switching to a bicycle should be within most peoples reach.
Alternatively, you can walk. Trader Joe’s just came out with insulated bags that are really sharp-looking (I’m referring to the black & red ones, not those vinyl jobs) - great for carrying groceries.
Bridget…….Been looking for a nice carry tote myself for downtown West Palm Beach for just this walk and shop reasons…….steve
Sign me up…
I try to be very aware of a companies ethics before I patronize, let alone invest.
& there are a handful of small communities & cities here in the states that sustain themselves through ethanol because it’s their bread & butter (you like that
) industry so, why not? They don’t have to deal with any transport issues & they’re happy as larks. But it’s not for the masses…
Matt - I agree, the suburban & x-urban (suburb of the suburb) experience in America is just flat out bad planning from our leadership.
Something like:
Hey lets build a bunch of big houses, some of them even in “gated” communities, surrounded by a mall, a few car dealerships & a boat load of fake semi upscale chain restaurants like Macaroni Grille. What an oasis we’ll create. Oh & office parks, lots of office parks… & “mega-Churches”… & we can all drive monster SUV’s to get our kids to & from those Churches, soccer practice & Wal mart. There’ll be no need for sidewalks, it wouldn’t be practical & we’re not setting this up with community in mind anyway because people are less & less interested in that. Sure in thirty years it will implode, we’ll start over somewhere else. What tradition. What heritage. Lets do it… In the fifties my Grandfather bought all the land thirty miles outside of Mid Sized City, USA for five hundred bucks an acre, we can get at least 75,000 an acre for it now. I’m telling you it promises a better more secluded life. Who cares what it does to dismantle our cities & their infrastructures? “People of color” (probably illegals) are starting to live there anyway… Plus, maybe in thirty years we can head back in to town & revitalize it. We’ll slap in some modern condos & a football stadium & run the property values back up thus running the existing residents back out (possibly to the now run down suburb we originally created)… It could be this adorable vicious cycle for generations. Keeps people employed & the economy stimulated.
Anyway, I rambled… But you can tell that my time in “Cool Springs” Tennessee was an uneasy one at best. Massively homogenized & without culture (parts of LA not being far behind I might add). Thankfully 99 percent of the monster SUV’s did have W stickers on their windows, but it still wasn’t for me.
Now the small historic town it was all infiltrating, that was/is a cool place. It will no doubt stay a cool place because it’s old money & old money protects itself & can’t be as easily bought.
Sorry Steve… This was an ethanol post. Matt started it!
It does sound like you have a nice little responsible system in place so as they say on the streets, “I aint mad at ya”!
Continued good luck with your “dismantling”…
M2……”New Urbanism” don’t know if that means anything to you, but it seems to be an architectural and urban planning concept that has attracted my interest. I guess that is why I was drawn to what was going on in downtown W. Palm. I’m sure some would dislike it, but I find the movement throughout the US quite nice.
I thought Cool Springs was ok, but very different from Franklin, but you would know much better than my limited trips there.
There are many on the farming side of the issue that support e-85 and more power to them. They are supplying a percieved need, at least want. We’ll just have to wait and see how long the “fad” perpetuates before it collapses on itself.
I bet you can still buy property for inflation adjusted $500 dollars an acre somewhere, but not all are as good in determining which will be worth $75,000 50 years later nor patient enough to find out………steve
Trader Joe’s just came out with insulated bags that are really sharp-looking (I’m referring to the black & red ones, not those vinyl jobs) - great for carrying groceries.
Hahahaha … I bought 4.
I’ll have to get over there if I can’t find them on ebay. My wife has been buying vintage glass on ebay lately. I think it is a kinda odd hobby……steve
I’ve been gone from the States for too long, so I didn’t know half as much about ethanol fuels before I read this. Thanks.
Hey Dave, thanks and thanks for stopping by and leaving a comment! Thanks for the Pingback. …….steve
Well, I only bought one. Then again, I only have two shoulders and one stomach, so I don’t see the need for more than that.
Incidentally, they are going on ebay for up to $15 each. You might want to consider selling a few.
Bridget I am going to check it out on ebay. ……steve
[…] over at Next Stop Lauderdale has some interesting informaion about E-85 and, not surprisingly, the role of Al […]
Hi Steve,
That’s some mighty fine calculator work! As a partial solution, I propose that we, the Government, Nationalize Martha’s Vineyard, plow it up, and put into corn production. If that’s not enough land to raise our corn yields to the needed levels, then there are several other areas which are currently devoted to overly large energy wasting homes that can be similarly conscripted.
the Grit
Hi Grit……..thanks for the calculator cudos. You can go ahead with that partial soltion if you’ll approve putting those windmills back into the planning off shore of Martha’s Vineyard and Cape Cod. I know Ted and his friends are against it but someone has to save the planet……….steve
Excellent analysis and I thank you.
I had yet to do my own homework on this subject and once again, you do a wonderful job on subjects that I am only vague on. Love your blog!
Barb……….thanks, I had wondered about the efficacy of E-85 for some time now as the panacea for Global Warming and energy independence. Didn’t make much sense on the surface and found out it was rotten to the core under the covers, but who is taking note of facts when the darling left has adopted a new “slogan” type approach to the worlds problems…….steve
Re: ”New Urbanism” don’t know if that means anything to you, but it seems to be an architectural and urban planning concept that has attracted my interest.
I’m very into it… But I was never into the suburbs. EVER!
Cool Springs was the epitome of lame… Most of greater Nashville in general was very poorly conceived.
M2 …… we definitely live in what you would call suburbs in Ohio, probably like Brentwood TN area of Nashville. ….sc
I know Dublin real well… My Cousin & his wife live there.
Very upwardly mobile, he makes a pile of money. Originally from Cleveland (North Olmstead, St Edwards High School)
Dublin is one of the wealthiest places in Ohio.
The land of Brady Quinn, everyones All American!
I give you bonus points for heading to West Palm in the winter… Although that place is also not reality, it’s got a decent little scene if you dig.
Well, good for the farmers, they need good breaks. If you’re a corn farmer the whole ethanol thing is probably lookin’ pretty good…for now. When the ethanol wall comes tumbling down - and it will, faster than some think - having your initial investment grow several times over may not be worth it to you. Seems like if you’re heavily tied into the success of e85 or ethanol in general (but especially e85) you may be in for some major disappointment. Some of the problems for wide-spread adaptation of e85 have been talked about here, but one in particular - infrastructure - is the main factor. So yeah, it’s gonna be good for awhile, but it is a market set for collapse under the weight of reality. When? Well, that’s the 64 billion dollar question, innit? Dunno if I’d feel bad about not getting in on the bottom floor of a building burnming down just as it was starting to get built.
Let’s eat the corn, other ways hold more promise in solving our energy problems.
Plodon……….I really think Heidi Jo is on the same page we are on this. You can’t really blame this on the farm areas. I’d cash in on it too given the opportunity. After all you know I am a supporter of Capitalism. But it is this type of synthesis that perfects Capitalism and I believe that this Thesis (E-85) will encounter its Anti-Thesis (the subject of my post here and other comments i.e. Matt and yourself) and the Synthesis will be the collapse of the idea as a tool for energy independence. …..”Thus sayeth………..” …..steve
I want the cost of my steak and milk to go back down again! Darn worthless ethanol.
Hi John………me too! …….steve
m2 my dad knows a ton about new-urbanism
And i lived in a development based on it in Florida. Both Dublin and Powell are uplifting their towns… It’s like a small town version of new-urbanisim I suppose. Email me your cousin’s name? Maybe we could look him up?
Dad I’m submitting you to Digg… I’m sure they’ll love you this one. HAHA.
MZ……not really sure at all what the Digg thing is or what makes them laugh…………dad
Oh that “new urbanism”… Where you put up a fake town?
Kinda like a bigger version of where Joey & Cathy Jo live?
I’m not very into that…
But it is a better idea to do that in the suburbs instead of what has been done there in the last generation I suppose.
I thought we were talking about revitalizing our existing cities?
I grew up in Washington DC & there were two towns in the suburbs (I believe the 1st of their “new urbanism” kind?) that this occured in. Reston, Virginia & Columbia, Maryland. They were called “planned communities” & were very progressive & wealthy. Typically people with a multi-cultural philosophy moved in to these towns. They were like disneyland. It was always so weird to visit someone out there.
I definitely do think these “towns & neighborhoods” are planned out with much more thought. Still a little to “Leave It To Beaver” for me.`
Digg is a nice little ego boost… Takes your post to the masses. Now you’ll really have “trolls”. Get ready!
M2 ……… I think I know what you mean when you say “that kind of New Urbanism” although I am at least partially responsible for encouraging Liz and JJ to buy a house in Baldwin Park when they moved to Orlando, but it was nice and really turned into almost a 50% return in about 9 months when they sold it.
We have an area in Columbus called Easton. This is sort of a fabricated “new urbanism” itself, but it is very nice. They have built streets to look like a town and buildings with stores. We also have that type of thing in Downtown W. Palm about 2 blocks from our place call “City Place” and they have streets, but the streets were authentic and original downtown streets. They have shops with many of the likely suspects like Easton but they have actual residences above them.
The whole thing (City Place) is in my opinion much more authentic than Easton in Columbus because people actually live in the apartments above the stores and restaurants on real streets whereas in Columbus it is a facade to “look” like real apartments on fabricated streets (interesting side note is one of those streets was named Worth Avenue). In West Palm we have a much more “downtown” and “urban” feel. There has been a lot of high rise construction going on downtown with much more planned. They are even planning a Transit Village around a village theme of about 5-6 blocks surrounding the “authentic” downtown rail station, which is the picture at the top of my blog on the masthead (West Palm Beach Tri-Rail Station). This development will connect up with the “City Place” development into one contiguous development.
An interesting note is that the City Council in W. Palm just nixed a proposed building on property next to ours that woud have had the 2nd highest tower in the world. There are two remaining schemes in the contest for this particular parcel.
Don’t know how long it has been since you have been to downtown W. Palm, but it has changed like day and night in the past 6-7 years…………steve
P.S. Surprise Surprise: Since Liz did the Digg thing after 2:00 PM EST this afternoon I have had 9 referred visits from them in the past 3.5 hours……..
& I’m in WPB at least once a year. My in-laws have several friends in that area (they have places in both Manasota Key & Naples) & my wife & I have gone to the Palm Beach Film Festival the past three years.
I like a lot of what is happening there… From what I can tell?
I’m not in to Easton at all.
[…] Oh by the way, I know you think that CO2 emissions are pollutants, if so don’t tell anyone because you are so misguided that you will be totally embarrassed when your “crowd” learns of your ignorance. Did you enjoy Al Gores speech today where he said we must have our energy grid based on renewable energy up within 10 years. Yes the guy that bragged about breaking the TIE in the Senate on the Ethanol legislation. Those of you that do not know of the folly of this legislation please allow me to refer you to my previous post on the matter HERE. […]